Just a while ago you heard our conversation with former Immigration Director Maria Marin. She's disavowed any involvement in irregularities. So, what about the Ministers whose names are called? Well, the Senate inquiry will have to look into those instances, but we wondered today about Deputy Prime Minister Patrick Faber. He is also one of those Minister's whose name does not so up in the audit reports, and we asked him about his activities trying to intervene on behalf of residents of Collet.
He told us that he has encountered voters who asked him to do unethical things to assist them, but he tries his very best to stay away from that kind of service. Here's what he had to say about why Ministers have it hard walking the straight and narrow:
Daniel Ortiz
"Have you encountered situations where you feel like your constituency are demanding too much of you to take steps which you are not comfortable with?"
Hon. Patrick Faber - Deputy Prime Minister
"I believe that what is deemed to be corruption on the part of politicians often stem from in your constituency so by extension the entire nation that you serve; you took an oath to serve them comes from people pressing you. You have to really be strong in the business of politics to keep a clean nose you know. I'll give you some very common examples that all can relate to. I get people who call me when they're at the Free Zone and they vex with you... if they're asking you to please call because the customs people have they or they need a minister for recommendation to get in; you know you don't belong there you know and they get upset. You get people for instance who on any given day as a minister you walk down the street you go to the supermarket, you go to the shop around the lane from where you live; somebody will be asking you for money. If you were to give everybody who ask you for money, money for the day, I'm telling you the only way you can get that money back is to steal. I tell people please no ask me fi mi money because I don't walk around with the government money."
"People come and they press you and they insult you and they tell you all kind of hurtful things. There is pressure coming from the electorate to do things that are not proper and some of them see it as something very small, they see it as things but these things add up and they blow out of proportion. So when it is there is the clamour for politicians to clean up their act; I'm not blaming the electorate but people also need to clean up what they are requesting of the politicians. But any politician who walks straight and narrow for too long and takes too hard of a line will find out they have enemies and might even lose unless you learn the very delicate craft of walking that tight rope."
"You have to use your judgement and determine how that is and if it is something that can really land you into trouble; I've tried to stay clear and be honest with people and to say to people I can't do this, I can't do that I find that people respect that. And they might not like that at the moment but then if you're consistent in doing that they come to appreciate you later on."
So, what about the influence that Ministers have over public officers? They are the Government bosses. So don't public officers often have to be prepared to withstand getting into trouble to disobey any minister? Today, we put that to Faber, and he once again did not agree. Here's how that conversation went:
Daniel Ortiz
"Getting a call from a minister is a very strong thing, you can't just dismiss that out of hand that if this minister says please assist this person it tends to jump ahead of the cue. Do you acknowledge that power you all weave?"
Hon. Patrick Faber - Deputy Prime Minister
"You will need to tell me where that is applicable because I am telling you and I have written many of letters and many of calls to ask for certain things to be done; even within my own ministry and they ignores them sometimes, many times. I have just been told about a situation where I approve something and they send it back, nothing illegal just that the person thought that was not within the practice, not a policy you know."
"I know of instances where public servants will stand up and withstand whatever; not because the minister say something means that gwen so you know, I have my job to do, I have things to do. I'll tell you there was a case I was in the hospital 2 nights ago and the security guard came to put me out and somebody was saying to him that's the deputy prime minister, the man said I am here to do my job, I was given a job. Visiting hours are over and minister we will have to ask you to leave; the man was doing his job, I never too happy with him but that is the way public servants quite often operate and nobody can fault them if they do that. Later on somebody came to say DPM we apologise and if you like we could reprimand... no the man was doing his job and all public servants should do their jobs. It should never be an excuse that the minister told me to that or Nuremberg defence, I was just following orders; that should never be the case. A public servant should be willing to get fired to lose his job in order to do what is right and to stand up for what is right, that is the kind of public service that we need."
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