And though political influence and electioneering caused that 2012 fiasco, if you ask any Minister of the Barrow Administration, they’d say that their regular visits and interventions did nothing to misdirect the application process for immigration documents. Every single Minister we’ve talked to insists that he was not seeking to push through applications for persons who didn’t qualify. From their perspective, they were giving introduction letters, and they always made sure to indicate in their letters of recommendation to the Immigration Director, that they wished for applicants to be approved “if all was in orderâ€￾.

Well, as we told you, Ruth Meighan’s successor, Maria Marin, started to keep a record of the number of recommendation letters she was receiving from ministers. It was a red flag for her, and she provided that list to the Senate Select Committee a few weeks ago. That list was not shared with the media. But it did come up today in the Senate hearing, along with Meighan’s observation that Ministers were popping in and out of the Immigration Department regularly.

Here’s the conversation that the Senate had with her on that topic:

Hon. Eamon Courtenay - PUP Senator
"Why would a minister write to you with respect to a Chinese individual who obviously the minister doesn’t know?"

Ruth Meighan - Former Director of Immigration
"My impression was that the minister was writing on behalf of a person that he knows to say that he is supporting somebody from his constituency."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"So what was the purpose of that?"

Ruth Meighan
"Just to say that they recommended the person."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"You are aware Ms. Meighan that in fact applications were processed, many applications were processed for visas on the strength of a minister's letter."

Ruth Meighan
"The applications were processed and approved by my desk even with the minister's recommendation based on the information that is presented to me by the officer to say that the person meets the requirements for a visa."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"Have you ever called a minister and ask him if he knows those people who he is recommending?"

Ruth Meighan
"That application is then given to the officer in charge of that section so that they could do the due process to process that application and based on their recommendation that approval is given."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"Right I will ask you my question again. Have you ever called one of the ministers and asked them?"

Ruth Meighan
"No."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"Right so what did you do with those letters?"

Ruth Meighan
"Those letters were used as recommendation on the file and when the officer brings it to me and say that the person meets the requirements that is the basis upon which we give the approval."

Hon. Elena Smith - Labour Senator
"Did you keep a record of those ministers who would send in letters to seek assistance with processing documents for persons that they knew?"

Ruth Meighan
"No."

Hon. Elena Smith - Labour Senator
"Was that because you did not see it as something necessary to do?"

Ruth Meighan
"That information was on the application along with the other application. You're talking about keeping a register of all those recommenders from ministers?"

Hon. Elena Smith - Labour Senator
"Mhm."

Ruth Meighan
"No."

Hon. Elena Smith - Labour Senator
"And that wasn't something you thought would be helpful to the department, to the minister in charge or anything of that sort?"

Ruth Meighan
"No."

Hon. Elena Smith - Labour Senator
"We were told by your deputy at the time Ms. Marin that she had thought it important to keep a record and she had sent us a listing of those ministers and she sent I believe 2 or 3 sets; one had about 191 names on it  and the other had about 200 and something names where she had kept those numbers to show much many times ministers or drivers or CEOs were going into the office. I'll just give you an example: We saw where minister Penner had made 51 request the first time of the 191; 51 request and in the second batch of 248 he made 92 requests, a total of 143. Minister Castro made a total of 80, 35 came from Minister Saldivar and the list goes on. Do you think that having something of that sort Ms. Meighan would have enabled you to make some sort of additional recommendation or maybe put in place additional policy to strengthen what was going on at your department?"

Ruth Meighan
"I didn't see the need to keep a record of those recommenders."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"What about the presence of these ministers in the department itself? You recall seeing them in there?"

Ruth Meighan
"Yes."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"Who do you recall seeing in there?"

Ruth Meighan
"At times Minister Heredia, Minister Castro, Minister Contreras, Minister Pott I think a few times."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"What were they doing there?"

Ruth Meighan
"I don't know other than if they come to me or pass through my office I wouldn't know."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"Ms. Meighan are you telling us you saw ministers in your department and you didn't ask any questions to find out why are these ministers here?"

Ruth Meighan
"If the minister came to the office to see me then I see them. If they are there for any other business and they didn't come to my office I ask no question about what they are doing there."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"You were not concerned for ministers being in your department who are not asking to see you?"

Ruth Meighan
"No."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"In hindsight you'd take a different approach?"

Ruth Meighan
"Why?"

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"You tell me."

Ruth Meighan
"I don't know they are there because-"

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"Have you read these reports?"

Ruth Meighan
"Yes I did and I am saying that if the minister is there like everybody else they're entitled to visit any of the offices, any of the government offices."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"All innocent and above as far as you are concerned?"

Ruth Meighan
"Well that's what I would have thought."

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"You know otherwise now?"

Ruth Meighan
"That the ministers were there doing official business?"

Hon. Eamon Courtenay
"I asked a question."

Ruth Meighan
"I'm asking what is it that you want me to think differently about. You're asking me whether it was okay for them to visit and I didn't question it? No I didn't because I am under the impression that they are there conducting official business."