7 News Belize

Guatemalan Foreign Minister Visits Belize To "Protest” Shooting Of Guat Citizen
posted (February 2, 2012)
This afternoon a man was shot six times in broad daylight in front of Belize Healthcare partners in Belize City. It is a stunning crime - particularly so for the residential neighborhood it happened in, and because it suggests a spike in gang related crime. We'll have the full story shortly - as our team is just back from speaking with the family of the deceased Mark Lewis.

But first, we go to some other big news that happened in Belize City today. This morning Guatemala's Minister of Foreign Affairs Harold Caballeros visited Belize in an official capacity to have talks with his Belizean counterpart, Wilfred Elrington. The meeting was held at the Foreign Affairs office in Belize City at the Whitfield Tower.

The meeting had been planned before Guatemalan Juan Choc Chub was allegedly shot and killed by the BDF in the Chiquibul Forest on Saturday afternoon - but that subject eclipsed all others and dominated discussions between the foreign ministers.

It also dominated the media's interview where Canciller Caballeros said he expects that the Government of Belize will compensate Chub's family for the loss of life in what he characterized as a disproportionate use of force by the BDF:

Embajador Harold Caballeros - Guatemalan Foreign Minister
"First of all, let me tell you that we came to Belize after visiting Adjacency Zone because we wanted to see the Minister of Foreign Affairs and to find ways to have a better and closer relationship."

"Regrettably, last Saturday we had this incident where a Guatemalan was killed and his brother was injured. That was top on the agenda. We discussed this and we asked for a due process; we asked for a full investigation and an explanation to Guatemala about what happened, and we obtained a commitment from the Belizean government about such investigation."

"We both required verification from the OAS office and we will wait for an official report, and we expect that there will be also an indemnisation for the family because this gentleman was 29 years old with 3 children and 2 on the way; his wife is pregnant. This is very regrettable. This is the source of the concern in the Guatemalan public opinion."

Hon. Sedi Elrington, Minister of Foreign Affairs
"This is an incident which occurred in Belizean territory, and it's an alleged crime. This is a matter exclusively for the Belize Police Force. The Belize Police Force has charge of the investigation. We have invited the OAS to be present and we have also invited personnel from Guatemala to be present to ensure that, in fact, all goes well and that the due process is followed."

"Once the result is concluded - it's just like any other criminal investigation; the police will go out there and do their job, and then if in fact it is suspected - if we have reasonable grounds to believe that any in Belize in at fault - then of course the due process will be taken. The legal action will be taken against them. If it is necessary, they will be arrested and charged, and the matter will go to our courts."

"We are expecting that when the police have done their work on the ground to look at the locus to investigate the soldiers and other people who were involved. We are also hoping that they will have a chance to interview the Guatemalans that are involved, and at the end of that process, they will determine whether in fact it's a matter that needs to go to the DPP for prosecution."

"If in fact there is persecution and people are found liable, certainly the government of Belize will be in a position and will certainly be disposed to compensating the family - as he is intimating. That is going to come after, in fact, we ascertain what the truth is."

"At this point in time, we are certain about nothing. There have been allegations. We have given instructions for it to be investigated, and as soon as that is done, we are going to make public the findings of the investigations and whatever is needed to be after that will be done in accordance with our laws."

Jules Vasquez
"In your country, the national sentiment is inflamed right now because they feel an injustice has been done. What is the message you will take back to your country that you will give publicly there?"

Embajador Harold Caballeros - Guatemalan Foreign Minister
"When we came we presented our protest and we feel that even if this matter happened in Belizean soil, the response was out of proportion. If these peasants were caught with Xate - which I understand is forbidden here - there is a due process for that but not exactly killing a person, and this person died in the arms of his brother who was also injured. That is unacceptable. That's what I came to present; we had a good conversation here and we obtained a commitment to investigate the matter thoroughly - which is what we want because we want justice to be served. Then I go back to my country, and I will explain what we did here, and I will explain too that it is very important for both countries to keep the relations as well as possible and even to increase closeness because we need to move forward. We need to move forward in order to finalize a conflict that we have had for so many years."

"We have several incidents that happened in the past in the AZ (Adjancency Zone) and the reports that we have and we are committed to share with the Belizean government are rather different. The OAS office has verified 4 serious incidents since August, and they were not caused by Guatemalans."

Jules Vasquez
"Do you agree with the characterization that the 4 incidents since August were caused not by Guatemalans thus presumable - they were caused by Belize security forces?"

Hon. Sedi Elrington, Minister of Foreign Affairs
"What the Foreign Minister has said very clearly is that we have different versions with respect to these incidents. That is something that we still have to sort out to find what in fact is the truth. They have undertaken to give us what they have, and we have undertaken to give them what we have based on the assessments done by the OAS."

Jules Vasquez
"You said an alleged crime. However, if the incident happened in the territory of Belize, outside the AZ - and as the Minister of Defence just told us the security forces were fired upon - do not they first have a right to defend themselves?"

Hon. Sedi Elrington, Minister of Foreign Affairs
"It doesn't matter whether you are legitimate or a trespasser in a country. You have rights and, therefore, when you are dealing with a trespasser or a legitimate person you can't violate their rights, and so persons can be found liable for their death unlawfully if - in fact - they were killed unlawfully. That is possible. Not because they are trespassers it means that you can believe that they have no rights and cause them to be killed. That is not so at all, and it's for that reason that we have an obligation to have the police investigate it just like any other alleged offence."

Jules Vasquez
"If the facts bared out that the security forces were fired upon though, that goes beyond the rights of a trespasser. A trespasser does not have the right to fire upon security forces in another country."

Hon. Sedi Elrington, Minister of Foreign Affairs
"Nobody has the right to fire on security forces, so those are legal issues that are going to be dealt with in the due course."

And while Elrington stressed that nothing is known for sure at this time - and will only be verified by investigation, for the BDF and Belize's Ministry of Defence, things are very clear.

We know that because Defence Minister Carlos Perdomo happened to be meeting with the Commander of the BDF, the Head of BDF Intelligence and the Ministry CEO, at the same time Elrington and Caballeros were meeting in another room.

Perdomo told us that they are certain that the BDF was only returning fire when Chub was shot:..

Hon. Carlos Perdomo, Minister of Defence
"The investigation is showing that the BDF was fired upon in Belizean territory - that's the main thing that we have established - away from the Adjacency Zone and we returned fire. But at each point that we returned fire, we did not pursue. We just withdrew, and so the knowledge of somebody getting wounded or killed according to the Guatemalan side - we did not know until Monday when we had linked-up patrol with the Guatemalan military."

Jules Vasquez
"Are you able to specify the location?"

Hon. Carlos Perdomo, Minister of Defence
"I have it in grid form."

Reporter
"But is it definitive that it's in Belizean territory?"

Hon. Carlos Perdomo, Minister of Defence
"Our investigation, so far, clearly shows that it is not only in Belizean territory but away from the Adjacency Zone even."

Jules Vasquez
"Which means that it's more than one kilometer within Belizean territory?"

Hon. Carlos Perdomo, Minister of Defence
"The adjacency Zone is 1 kilometer from the border. These incidents occurred over a kilometer into Belize. In the Chiquibul we had an operation that was divided into 4 patrols. The first patrol, Alpha, came under contact twice, so it is likely but we don't have any definite proof that maybe the second contact might be the same group."

"A second patrol, Bravo, had a contact, but that contact was light. It was quick, it was one shot. The BDF responded with another shot to deter and it ended. That third contact with the second patrol was minimal."

Jules Vasquez
"These happened within a time frame of?"

Hon. Carlos Perdomo, Minister of Defence
"One occurred like 12:30 in the afternoon and the other maybe a few hours later as the patrols moved. They didn't sit, they moved and continued their task and then they met the second."

"Our term of engagement is to defend ourselves, and certainly the BDF will always defend itself."

And so if the BDF were defending themselves and the Guatemalans were firing on them - then it is not a crime. But right now those are just reports from both sides.

What follows next will be very complex and difficult police investigation. That's because first, there is no crime scene, and there is no body - presumably the Guatemalans have the body - and it may have already been buried. It is unclear whether the Belize police can use their post mortem report to launch an investigation in Belize. The OAS will also - as we understand it - observe this police investigation - and police would also have to get Guatemalan assistance to interview Chub's brother who was reported to have been injured as well. As we said, a complex, unprecedented type of investigation, and it will be interesting to see how the tough technical details are worked out.

But - at the official level - both sides are committed to working it out and that's because Caballeros - who has been Foreign Minister for just two weeks, said he wants to put the Belize Guatemala dispute behind him:

Hon. Sedi Elrington, Minister of Foreign Affairs
"I was very pleased by the expression by which the Foreign Minister used this morning. What he said essentially is that Guatemala is tired of this age-old dispute. They want to get rid of the dispute and bring it to an end so that they can have the kind of relationship with Belize that they have with Costa Rica, El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico and all the countries."

Embajador Harold Caballeros - Guatemalan Foreign Minister
"We want a closer relationship as the Minister said. We want to leave this conflict behind us, to look for a better future for our people."

Caballeros came to power with the Government of Otto Perez Molina, which took office on January 14, 2012.

Home | Archives | Downloads/Podcasts | Advertise | Contact Us

7 News Belize