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Hon. Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"The evidence I think that COLA wants in the case of Elvin Penner is no more than has been on the news, has been on Channel 7, Channel 5 and everywhere and while I look at it I continue to wonder what is it beyond that that they are seeking. As you know there was and is no file that we've been able to find and that would have been the fundamental evidence. The evidence that is out there is the same that you have: a copy of a nationality certificate. We haven't found the original, the person probably has that, a passport; the original passport was in Taiwan. I think it will come to Belize sometime this month by special hand of the ambassador when she arrives and that about it and I think also the application form that was filled out has already been given over to COLA. That is certainly with the police and everybody else - it's been public knowledge."

But what is not public knowledge is how a trove of files were secreted out of the department. Arthur Saldivar ended up with a few of them, and there are others which we know are still out there. This is all material from the parallel operations of the Department Of Immigration; stuff that was happening in the background of the Department's official functions, facilitated by corrupt staffers and funded by well-connected political operatives. So far no investigation - except a little known one by the US Embassy - has touched on this. Hulse said he was hoping that the police would find out how they files disappeared from the Department:..

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"I was hoping that when the Police came in they would have been able to determine for us how our files went missing, and who was responsible for that, and how they wound up in Arthur Saldivar's hand. That is what I really needed to know, and how we could get them back. And that has not been determined. Clearly somebody in the department siphoned them off, or shuttled them out or something and that was the first thing. That would have given us the lead to figure out how it is that we can't find the file for Won Hong Kim or some of the other files that have been missing. As you know Mr. Saldivar said there were one hundred and fifty files. To my knowledge five have been returned to the Police and a couple photocopies of passports, etc. If that is so, then there's a hundred and forty-five are still to come. And that is what we were hoping the Police would have been able to determine."

Jules Vasquez
"But maybe they weren't seeking it earnestly because there is a third rail involved here in terms of that is something that they know instinctually you're not to touch because Immigration is a hustle that runs big and deep and so maybe they didn't seek it earnestly. I, for example, know where some of the files are, and I know that the US Embassy has questioned people who they believe have such files but no local authority has questioned them."

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"I'll ask the Police to ask you, Jules."

Jules Vasquez
"How many passports that were cancelled sir that was signed - the nationality certificate signed by your then minister of state Elvin Penner?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"We have quite a few to be cancelled. We haven't cancelled any yet because we are waiting on the DPP to do the final legal documentation for this sort of thing, but there is a lot of passports that we have recovered. So far we have about 9."

Hulse says that before cancellations are made, the persons whose documents will be cancelled must be asked to make a presentation in the interest of natural justice.

Those parallel operations - it is believed - are also not uncovered in the Auditor General's report. We surely have not seen the report, but best information suggests it is not. Hulse told us the preliminary report is being discussed and examined at this time:..

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"it's a preliminary, as you know in any audit situation, and the Auditor-General is no different, a report is normally sent to the executive, in any private company or anything for them to have a look see to say what they're going to see, and that is generally followed up by a management letter, to see if you agree or don't agree with certain things. There are some things you may or may not agree with, or may answer one way or another. I think that's the stage where the Auditor-General report is. It was sent to the Prime Minister. Of course it's not the Prime Minister who will respond, it's the C.E.O. in the Ministry, who is Mrs. Candy Saldivar-Morter. And I think she has already responded to the Auditor-General so the process now goes on and what we are looking for now is her final report."

Jules Vasquez
"Is there any chance that there will be attempts to prevail upon the Auditor-General, as one often does with an auditor, to have them move away from certain adverse conclusions?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse
"Not as far as I am concerned. I hope she just says it as it is."

Jules Vasquez
"Yes, but I am saying in the letter from the CEO as with the CEO of a company. If an auditor has an adverse conclusion, the CEO of a company then goes about trying to explain to them is that what really happened is X,Y,Z and Z,Y,X as you believe or as you contend in your audit."

Hon. Godwin Hulse
"That is part of audit process. I want to be crystal clear, it's not going to be trying to change or convince any adverse thing which is detrimental. I know for a fact, for example, the Auditor-General has complained about timelines for response. But she hasn't determined what the issue was. And I know the C.E.O. has explained the timelines for response. If she says X, Y and Z just as an example, was done that was wrong, nobody is going to change that."

And so the auditor generals' report, the investigation by the Financial Intelligence Unit, the police investigation, the private prosecution.....all that and no one fired except Elvin Penner from Cabinet.

Three Immigration officers have faced the public service commission - and were re-instated, while two others got a lawyer to defend them against a basic query from their director. Hulse expressed his frustration with the situation:

Hon. Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"The ruling of the Public Services Commission with respect to the three persons was a little disappointing to me cause I don't see and I will never see how they arrived at their ruling, but I respect it."

Mike Rudon, Ch 5
"Sir, but at least in that case it went through the proper procedure, they were suspended. But in the case of the two Immigration officers it seems that they have been left to....."

Hon. Godwin Hulse
"Not quite, not quite, remember it's the Public Service Commission that does the suspension, it's not the ministry, so it's still up there before them to go back and forth."

Reporter
"No recommendation in this case on the part of the Director?"

Hon. Godwin Hulse
"Well, the Director's first take was to ask them for clarification on various issues, and I, for the love of me, can't see why a senior officer, a head of a department, can't ask the staff below them for clarification. The response from the attorney I think was totally inadequate, but that is an attorney's response, nothing to say. I thought, and I still think, that if I am asked how this process and that process was not complied with, that you should give a response."

Mike Rudon, Ch 5
"You are saying that they have said we just don't answer, we are going to our attorney, but that's it. There is nothing that you can do as Minister. There is nothing that your Director can do. These two officers are still in their positions, doing the same things that they have been doing all along, whether good or bad and they haven't been touched."

Hon. Godwin Hulse
"Yeah well as I said that process is ongoing. And to follow up, Mike, a lot of things for me as minister I would consider being held to ransom. I'm a yesterday person. If I had had my way there would have been tremendous changes in lots of things, but I have to work a process and this is the process and I have to respect the law and the policy and as you know when I was to go before the public service commission they bluntly said absolutely not, not you minister, you are stepping out of your bounds."

With all that, Hulse concedes that there are still reds being run in the Immigration Department.