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Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"He also had a PR44711 which was issued on 14th November and it replaced an old PR which was number 4262 similarly. Again, when I look at what you showed, the certificate had no seal and of course indicating there was no swearing in. He also got a passport and his passport was P0226015. The justice of the peace at the time who signed Mrs. Gertrude Armstrong and she was an immigration official and also he paid his requisite fee etc. That passport is also on notice."

Jules Vasquez
"So then since the passport was issued irregularly without a seal being on the nationality certificate or a swearing in. Is it then your opinion that you were played into signing a suspect nationality certificate?"

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"That is one of the reasons why the file was also sent to the police. The information was sent to the police to investigate the old PR. Because when we looked into it and when we did the review, it look why is it he did not complete the process and got his passport in this very process. The passport went through the normal stages, he applied, approval was done in the normal way etc. but even at the time, the officer approving at the time should have known that a certificate presented without the seal, without the proper information of swearing in would not be legit."

Jules Vasquez
"Having reviewed the files now with more precision, is there a feeling of personal embarrassment that your good name is brought into this?"

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"Having reviewed my data, because the files, the immigration is still looking for them. Jules, put it this way. When I got the position of Immigration minister, there was myriad stories about immigration. Immigration, customs, lands legend with all sorts of things happening. I heard some fantastic stories of monies being paid etc. There was also a very serious statement in the department running around at that time that, well, who he think he is? Or we are going to show him or he think he is smart - all those statements I have heard and I have no reason to hide them. And so I had no doubt that lots of things continued."

Jules Vasquez
"Do you feel these officers set you up, perhaps in concert with elected representatives who are holding office?"

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"Well I won't go that far. But I will say certainly, they would say okay, we will show the minister. He is green and what not and we will set this up and this is what will happen. And then it happened. The problem with it is that because it is not my doing we were able and are able to say whenever these passports show up, these persons will be grabbed. This sort of thing under the old law, the fine was a wrap on the knuckle. Under the new law, it is $50,000 and up to 15 years in jail. That was to strengthen that process of the issuance of passports. We went further. Back then you will recall also visas were all over the place. There was all sorts of issues over visas; ministers were requesting visas and all sorts of things and you never knew. Everybody was issuing visas. Today, nobody can issue visa, except a visa vetting committee that meets every Wednesday. They are meeting right now. And its 3 senior CEOs. I as the minister cannot override. I cannot override. I cannot say please issue a visa to X. That's up to the committee and if the committee refuse to issue the visa, the prime minister cannot override."

Jules Vasquez
"However, again at the end of the day, the people who are vetting those visas are contract officers of the government of Belize."

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"Yes."

Jules Vasquez
"So then they are open to suggestion, if not influence."

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"Well, they may be open to suggestion or influence. But we have to at some stage Jules, have confidence in the integrity of the people."

And while we asked Hulse if he felt hat someone in the department was setting him up, or what might be called, "punking" him when he signed those documents - we might also ask the same thing now. These documents were leaked to attorney Arthur Saldivar - who seems to have an above average interest in exposing or embarrassing Hulse. Hulse told us, he knows what's up:..

Jules Vasquez
"It would seem that somebody is out there to embarrass you on multiple levels."

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"That is obvious. That is obvious because even when the night when the show came on, when I saw it. I said wow. There are 4 files, but he said I signed 2. So who signed the other 2? Why was not the name of the minister who signed the other 2 mentioned? Because it had to be another minister and that minister fell into the same situation perhaps, with an old PR replaced with a new PR and same. So why mentioned only Godwin Hulse? I am not naive you know."

Jules Vasquez
"There is obviously something to be gained from embarrassing you publicly."

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"Yeah, obviously. Godwin Hulse has maintained this position of zero tolerance with this and so it may suit those persons who say 'you see, I got you.' There is not got me."

Jules Vasquez
"You don't feel they have you? They have your name signing two nationality documents that are very suspicious."

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"That's not a "got me." That is a got me, if you could say to me there is no basis for which you sign these. No kind of basis whatsoever and so you were in some sort of deal. So signing the certificate does not say ah huh. A file comes, it comes with the relevant data, it looks okay, it comes with the recommendation of the offices in the department, it comes with the recommendation of the director - it looks okay. I don't research every single file. I would never finish being able to look through and calling people and seeing if... You have to trust the people working with you and that is what I did."

And so while Hulse has been defending himself for three straight nights about the signing of a pair of suspect nationality documents - he said he got those documents because of the culture of corruption which had come to permeate the department. And he traces that to the early 90's when wholesale waivers of fees and screening for new nationals became routine.

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"My research in that department when I got there showed me that in the past, particularly beginning in after 1989 election, that letters were written to the director by the then immigration minister saying "please facilitate these people and waive all requirements and fees" and the directors complied. At the time it was minister Said Musa, the minister of immigration."

Jules Vasquez
"And that he requested the waiver?"

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"Yes, of all requirements, all security checks and fees. We have letters to show that 254 persons, the requirement should be waived and in another case, 30-40 people, the requirement should be waived."

Jules Vasquez
"On what premise?"

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"On the premise that the minister said so. And what I am asking is was the requirement to renounce Guatemalan citizenship. Was the requirement was to see that these people did have any criminal background? The basis in all those letters was the persons have been here a long time. Nut there is nothing to say that they were here illegally or legitimately. That was a practice and what I am saying is that those kind of practices at the top would obviously lead the bottom to think well, okay, we can also do our thing and so you begin to develop this kind of culture in immigration and that's the culture I met. We have moved."

Jules Vasquez
"However, you have to accept also that members of your own party, you can't just spin it on Mr. Musa. Members of your own party facilitated or fed into that culture as well."

Godwin Hulse, Minister of Immigration
"Yes probably. But when I have letters or notes that say that, then I will say so."