Last night, we showed you portions of yesterday's Senate Hearings on Immigration in which Immigration Officer Ady Pacheco answered questions publicly for the first time since her name started getting called in immigration scandals 5 years ago.
Her testimony lasted for just over 3 and a half hours, and during that time, she took a lot of questions from the Senators. And it was right that she did because her name comes up 96 times in the Auditor General's reports - many times for questionable actions as an Immigration Officer.
One topic which we didn't get to show you yesterday was the conversation the Senate Committee had with her about persons dropping off nationality applications on behalf of an applicant. The Auditor General says that all nationality applicants must drop off their applications files in person. That means that Immigration Officers shouldn't have been accepting the files from someone else. But, it was a common practice, and when Pacheco was asked if it is against procedure to do so, she sort of flip flopped.
Here's that back and forth, up until the point when she finally conceded that applications should have been accepted only from the person applying:
Hon. Aldo Salazar - Chairman, Senate Select Committee
"You are familiar with these requirements?"
Ady Pacheco - Named in Auditor General's Report
"Yes"
Hon. Aldo Salazar
"So you agree that this is process described here is accurate?"
Ady Pacheco
"More or less, yes"
Mark Lizarraga - Senator
"Chair could you get some clarity on that, more or less? The question is specific. Are there any of these that you do not agree with or any of these that you are seeing for the first time or not familiar with?"
Ady Pacheco
"Not for the first time, B says completed application form are to be [] personally by the applicant, that was not always the case, that's what I meant."
Mark Lizarraga
"Okay but you know it's a requirement?"
Ady Pacheco
"Yes."
Hon. Aldo Salazar
"Was it a requirement that you had to bring it in personally because you said that it wasn't always done? So if it wasn't done it would have been a breach of the procedures as far as you understood them."
Ady Pacheco
"No."
Hon. Aldo Salazar
"Not necessarily by what is here because I want to know what you understood the procedure to be. Applicants had to bring in their documents personally?"
Ady Pacheco
"No."
Hon. Aldo Salazar
"You already said that the applicant was not required to bring in the documentation personally so is there anything else?"
Mark Lizarraga
"That is what I'm seeking, clarity. I want to know if the applicant was not required to bring in the application personally or there were cases where the applicant did not bring in. Was to the best of your knowledge, was it a requirement for the applicant to bring in personally his application?"
Hon. Aldo Salazar
"I understand that you are objecting to the question because it has been answered."
Mark Lizarraga
"I'm sorry I'm just seeking clarity. So I'll ask again to the best of your knowledge it was a requirement that the applicant applied personally, yes or no? Was it a requirement?"
David Morales - Attorney for Ady Pacheco
"Its the same question that has been answered but as far as she was concerned there is no requirement that it should be brought in by the person."
Mark Lizarraga
"There is no requirement?"
"Was it a requirement, the fact that it was not always done, was it a part of the rules regulations, procedures, what you are accustomed to, that it should happen, that's my question."
Ady Pacheco
"The application should be brought in by the applicant."
Mark Lizarraga
"But that was not always the case in your experience?"
Ady Pacheco
"Yes that's why I said that I interpreted as not really being a requirement."
Michel Chebat - PUP Senator
"Kindly clarify why you say it was not a requirement for the applicant to personally bring it in. Why do you say it was not?"
Ady Pacheco
"Why I said it was not a requirement? Because I met at a system that was that way that not everybody brought in their own applications."
Michel Chebat
"You met that system there? So you experienced other people bringing in applications for nationality for somebody else?"
Ady Pacheco
"Yes."
Michel Chebat
"As a matter of fact the audit team asked you this very question didn't they Ms. Pacheco?"
Ady Pacheco
"I can't recall."
Michel Chebat
"Didn't they ask you this very question in relation to the Won Hong Kim application Ms. Pacheco?"
Ady Pacheco
"They asked who brought in the application, yes they did."
Michel Chebat
"They actually asked you if it was a requirement that the applicant should appear personally to make the application for nationality, that is what they asked you. Do you recall what you answered?"
Ady Pacheco
"No."
Michel Chebat
"Please look at page 7. You were asked, should applicants appear personally to make an application for nationality? Right? Your response was, you said that it was usually the case but this was the practice of ministers, their secretaries and drivers to bring in application forms for individuals. So my question is, it was a requirement for the applicant to appear personally, wasn't it as part of the process?"
Ady Pacheco
"At the time we didn't have set basic procedures."
Michel Chebat
"You knew very well that it was part of the requirement that the applicant must appear personally, if not you would not have made the qualification you did here Ms. Pacheco. It was required but for ministers, their secretaries and so forth it was allowed for them to bring in their application that is what you were saying."
Ady Pacheco
"They brought in applications."
Mark Lizarraga
"Why would you have used the word, "this was a privilege that they enjoyed for as long as you could remember," same paragraph 7.16. Did other people enjoy this privilege?"
Ady Pacheco
"I can't recall, no"
Mark Lizarraga
"So then this was a privilege only extended to ministers, secretaries and their drivers?"
Ady Pacheco
"I can't explain why at the time I used that word, it's been so long ago but ministers, secretaries and sometimes even their drivers would bring in applications."
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